Curse

Shadis · Apr 18, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Mesmers are already quite useful in PvE, it's just that non-mesmers tend to be far too intellectually challenged to realize this simple fact.

Yes. The unwashed masses are so ignorant to just how useful a Mesmer can be in place of another Elementalist, Monk or Warrior. We need the almighty and godlike Mesmer Community to show us the path to enlightenment.

boko · Apr 18, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Heh, I understand what you are saying and just want to throw this in there just for semantic clarification. In this case 'pvp' really is limited to HA wouldn't you aggree?

I'd say PvP= GvG and HA more precisely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

But I digress, I agree that this doesn't adress that single problem so... no energy from spirits OR other than your own summoned creatures. My argument for this last is that since you've summoned (or in the case of duelling verata fighters - whoever owns it when it dies) the critter, you are the only one with a *link* to it's essence. Regardless, I believe the ranged effect without a manufactured time limit on gain is far more elegant, but as I'm not a game programmer (I just play one on TV) I really don't know how much work this would be to implement.

Actually, that option seems pretty good, IMO. But that's Anet's call whether to take that option or not :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

and by 'matters most' you meant of course to add: 'to you'

By "matters most", I mean for the game :/
If you read the SR nerf post, you will see that I am in fact against the 5 sec timer.
So, your accusation is a real blow to me T_T

Moloch Vein · Apr 18, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by explodemyheart

Did you stop reading after my first sentence? You should probably take my paragraph in its entirety. Several ideas have been proposed, some very good, some decent, some very bad. They were all already suggested awhile ago. I said I had not seen any new viable ideas, and if anybody had more, feel free to share.

Nobody has presented any new ideas (at least not viable) for several days and they're all in the other thread anyway. Gaile had previously acknowledged that the thread was being read, which obviously means the suggestions were read. To be honest, there were lots of ideas presented and I suspect anybody in charge hardly has the time to personaly respond to every single one of them. The fact that this thread was even created is acknowledgement.

There was one idea presented that was voted favorable by over half the people in the other thread. It has been met with dead silence despite the fact that it would effectively murder the builds which the nerf was originally created to remove.

There have been other ideas posted regarding pip-regen, stacking or non-stacking, fading, non-fading, up to today.

Moloch Vein · Apr 18, 2007, 11:25 PM // 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by catharsis

I don't suppose we could stop with the ridiculous straw-man arguments that go "OMG ANET Y U REALIZE NOW AFTER TWO YRS LOLOLOL!".

Two years ago, Soul Reaping had exactly zero skills linked to it, which meant that every point in SR was a point not being spent on an attribute that helped them do anything directly.

Now we have five skills, none of which in the main campaign, three of which elite, neither of which extremely useful for any normal player.

MSecorsky · Apr 18, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadis

Yes. The unwashed masses are so ignorant to just how useful a Mesmer can be in place of another Elementalist, Monk or Warrior. We need the almighty and godlike Mesmer Community to show us the path to enlightenment.

Yes. YES! Finally someone gets it!

It's funny... but if you took any of those classes (ele, monk, war) and told them to build to fight a mesmer, and the mesmer knew who he was giong up against, I'd have to put my money on the mesmer every time in a fight to the death (not a stalemate, monks...

).

lennymon · Apr 18, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by boko

I'd say PvP= GvG and HA more precisely.

Ok, fine gvg but to a WAY lesser degree, even to the point of not really being a problem due to more mobility, interrupts. Despite your opinion that only pvp matters, Anet (thankfully) realizes there is more than just pvp to GW. SR has been needing a nerf for awhile now, and while their latest update is a step in the right direction, it needs some fine tuning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

some stuff...and the mesmer knew who he was giong up against, I'd have to put my money on the mesmer every time in a fight to the death (not a stalemate, monks...

).

THAT sir, is one of the biggest ifs in the world. Not to mention the point that GW is not now nor will it ever be a 1vs 1 game.

The Ernada · Apr 18, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

THAT sir, is one of the biggest ifs in the world. Not to mention the point that GW is not now nor will it ever be a 1vs 1 game.

It's not an "if" in PVE considering that you always know beforehand what monsters and what skills they'll be using in any given mission/instance.

And yes, it will never be a 1v1 game but the point still stands that a mesmer can be specifically built to counter and destroy anything.

icymanipulator · Apr 18, 2007, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Necros: you are just too damned efficient! Something must be done, lets break out the nerf-bat.

Mesmers: we are finally going to implement the strip club in Lion's Arch you have all been waiting eagerly for.

I guess that about sums it up.

mortis corpus · Apr 18, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

thanks for the update atleast im hoping that it all comes out for the best for everyone

mortis corpus · Apr 18, 2007, 11:47 PM // 23:47

thanks for the update atleast im hoping that it all comes out for the best for everyone

pctech65 · Apr 18, 2007, 11:51 PM // 23:51

I must say the posts on Guru are somewhat lacking these days. When I see page after page of nothing but posts which are quoting other posts, then its pretty obvious they are nothing but argument threads.
There is an old saying:"If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem." I think people should start taking note of this.

Almighty Zi · Apr 18, 2007, 11:52 PM // 23:52

Please, please, please don't add any more direct damage skills to mesmers just to make them more attractive to PvErs - unless these are PvE only skills. We really don't want a repeat of spiritual pain spike.

The mesmer's focus isn't damage and since damage (plus healing) gets you through 100% of PvE most groups would rather take an extra damage dealer to get the job done quicker than a mesmer.

It's not difficult to see why memsers aren't that desirable for PvE when the majority of the enemies in PvE don't really do anything that you can't heal or damage through (i.e. no need for any kind of shutdownl). You really don't need a mesmer when enemy monks just maintain holy wrath and use orison to heal themselves, or just carry judge's insight, shielding hands and divine intervention.

Adding more direct damage skills and shifting the mesmer's focus slightly may indeed make them more useful for PvE but it will have a more dramatic effect on how they are balanced in PvP.

lennymon · Apr 18, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Ernada

It's not an "if" in PVE considering that you always know beforehand what monsters and what skills they'll be using in any given mission/instance.

And yes, it will never be a 1v1 game but the point still stands that a mesmer can be specifically built to counter and destroy anything.

heh, this is true...
but in pve 1 vs 1, a ranger doesn't even really need much special designing...
nor a warrior... or an ele....
and yes mesmer has always done well at 1 vs 1, so its not really the point. Mesmers are lacking a role in the masses ;P... I think personally while a mesmer would be awesome against many of the casters in DOA for example, a nuker is awesome against ALL opponents in DOA. That's the problem in a nutshell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pctech65

I must say the posts on Guru are somewhat lacking these days. When I see page after page of nothing but posts which are quoting other posts, then its pretty obvious they are nothing but argument threads.
There is an old saying:"If your not part of the solution, then your part of the problem." I think people should start taking note of this.

I'm just quoting you with another 'line'
If your not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitant.
your post is a prime example of your post, and if there is anything worse than a wasted post, its a hypocritical wasted post.

boko · Apr 18, 2007, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Ok, fine gvg but to a WAY lesser degree, even to the point of not really being a problem due to more mobility, interrupts. Despite your opinion that only pvp matters, Anet (thankfully) realizes there is more than just pvp to GW. SR has been needing a nerf for awhile now, and while their latest update is a step in the right direction, it needs some fine tuning.

Sorry, but dun't put words into my mouth. I never said "only pvp matters". I said "where it matters most i.e PvP", which is correct. PvP needs balance more than PvE, and this is a fact. Tournament is made around PvP and real cash are awarded. It would be really stupid for Anet to award cash to a team which uses an overpowered gimmick build.

And, yes, I know that there is more than PvP to GW, since I , myself, play both PvE and PvP. And, I also know that the majority of the players prefer playing PvE.

But, however, that does not changes the fact that balance in PvP is essential for GW. What was wrong with your 1st suggestion was that it was only considering the PvE side of the equation. That is why I told you that it was not viable. I did not mean any offense there. Just stating the truth. On the other hand, the 2nd suggestion was much better since it also addressed the problem in PvP and the PvE side.

Peace.

unienaule · Apr 18, 2007, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Say there's a broken skill out there that nobody has noticed yet, for the purposes of my argument. Suppose it's been broken for like, months, and nobody has noticed. When it becomes popular and is nerfed, would the argument, "BUT IT WAS THAT WAY LIEK FOREVER" have any validity whatsoever? No. The end.

countesscorpula · Apr 18, 2007, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

There is no need to "shelve your necromancer" you just need to learn how to play it without unlimited amounts of energy. Try watching that little blue bar and bring some energy management skills like the other professions.

It's patronizing statements like this that start flame wars. Do you really want to do that?

Saying the necro class was completely destroyed is hyperbole. So is saying that previously necros had "unlimited energy." If you come across stuborn monks or nasty mesmers, necros did indeed run out of energy. When fighting a boss that just refuses to die, you run out of energy. It has already been made clear that there are no core e-management skills in the necro profession, and A-Net has made it abundantly clear that they dislike using second professions to manage energy (nerf to Mantra of recall, nerf of GoLE, etc). If you have something useful to say, try not to be insulting while you say it.

Series · Apr 19, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Say there's a broken skill out there that nobody has noticed yet, for the purposes of my argument. Suppose it's been broken for like, months, and nobody has noticed. When it becomes popular and is nerfed, would the argument, "BUT IT WAS THAT WAY LIEK FOREVER" have any validity whatsoever? No. The end.

But when it is nerfed, the nerf should fix the broken aspect, which this nerf did not do at all.

KANE OG · Apr 19, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Love for the Mesmers! I like it. Any party leader who doesn't accept a Mes into the group purely because "it's a mesmer" is a moron. Degen and interupts are some of the most devestating skills there are.

Looking forward to this update, my Necro will live on. Sheesh, whiners! Where's that "learn to adapt" spirit most of you throw at everyone else who gets a nerf?

KANE

icymanipulator · Apr 19, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Whenever someone says mesmers suck or some variant on that statement, it makes me wonder if they've ever tried to run a domination or interrupt build on a hero. Granted there are probably few players who can match the timing the AI throws off...but those hero mesmers are devastating...as a necro I fear them more than any other single class out there the next being elementalists.

Jibrail · Apr 19, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

the root problem is that the game is being designed for pvp play and yet there is this large pve world wherein the necro and mezzy classes don't fit in very well anymore.

since i play pve, gw is not the right game for me.